100 thoughts on “Trading Gold vs Bitcoin: Friend or Foe? (w/ Roy Sebag)

  1. Great interview. Great discussion about why gold and bitcoin can both be a valid stores of value and can exist together in the financial markets going forward.

  2. This was a valiant and articulate thesis. The mere fact that both gold and bitcoin were discussed at par should give away the inevitability of transition to digital. To be fair, bitcoin is the new kid on the block for ten years while gold has enjoyed this status for thousands of years. To use volatility and lack of pure utility at this stage is like Al Pacino critiquing my acting career at my first audition. I also agree gold will maintain its monetary status as the legacy store of value.

  3. great arguments!!!!. I have a stake in both gold/silver and btc. graduated with pure mathematics nearly completed physics and chemistry minor. but some inaccuracies for his info.

    1.gold doesn't have the same portability as btc (domestic and international) without hassle

    2. gold mining does have an impact on the environment and requires fuel constantly for the movement of these resources, especially when you recast it. gold not as divisible as BTC, therefore, would take time and difficulty is getting the exact amount. altho great point that its existence is like a sun needs to keep burning in order to survive.

    3. BTC doesn't require all these miners to be on the network. the network is that big because people believe it is worth to it set up 15:18 , look at the footprint of swift network, and yet BTC is using to much, and allows individuals instead of few corporations,

    4. the ability to have your wealth stored in your head is unfathomable, you don't have to worry about it being stolen, unlike your gold or paper gold by either government intervention or robbers

    5. you can be fooled by fake gold takes longer to confirm the purity of gold. as BTC does that for you by having a mathematical formula nearly identical to the laws of physics done instantly

    6. miners will use renewable resources so… and the world is moving towards renewable resources in everyday life

    ………. wishing for a gold standard or a digital system the takes the monetary system away from countries and gives it back to the law of physics or mathematics.

  4. This guy is right! Bitcoin is a bet on what could be the future and it does have flaws.

    I think he's underestimating the role of bitcoin nodes choosing the correct chain, the exponential network effect that the internet provides, and just how much easier it is to build things on bitcoin rather than the dollar, gold, etc but damn! Smart dude, giving a much more thought out approach than Peter Schiff.

    Still going to hold these things in case it works while also holding gold in case the gold standard returns ✊

  5. Love sebag. Not sure why he thinks gold is better than bitcoin because of… jewelry. I mean who cares. He said gold doesn’t care. Bitcoin don’t care either. And bitcoin isn’t aligning itself with Keynesianism. It’s born through the Austrian school.

  6. hash rate adjust and goes down an up, eventually the energy use will go down as once deflation from halving will make in not profitable for everyone to stay mining

  7. Excellent. My key takeaway is that BTC can't exist in a vacuum as gold can. If BTC miners stop processing transactions, bitcoins can no longer be exchanged and therefore lose all value. A very sobering thot for a BTC "investor".

  8. Using big words to disguise he doesn’t understand Bitcoin or another paid Gold pundit. Bitcoin aligning itself like Keynesian fiat system???? Bitcoin 🚀🚀🚀

  9. Um…is this guy smoking like, uber pot or something? He's all over the place, talking about corporeal this, bitcoin is an abstraction that….good grief. It's like listening to an insane person.

  10. Governments invade countries killing 100,000s of people. They do this to protect their corrupt fiat or reserve currency status. You think that once Crypto raises it's head fully above the parapet it won't get regulated to death.

  11. There will only be one global public ledger. Every other coin will go to zero. The Metanet will be built on BitcoinSV. They will have 2gb blocks at the end of this month and will keep doubling it to scale infinitely. Do your research. Don’t buy the fake segwit fork corecoin btc. You are all getting scammed be the same bankers who fund blockstream. Craig Wright is Satoshi Nakamoto.

  12. His argument falls flat on its face as he realizes that a bit is just as part of the "natural world" as Au (gold). I don't get why there is even a debate between the two camps (gold vs bitcoin). Well, actually I do – both camps are trying to pump their respective bags/bricks (simple as that). It's not a THIS or THAT, it's BOTH. You need both, fuckers. If you need reasons as to why this is, go back to the kiddie game (it's just down the street).

  13. I own a fair amount of PMs, but here is my problem with them: No other asset in history has been clandestinely mined, smuggled and secretly hoarded the way gold has. Now add thousands of years of fraudulent record-keeping, deceptive accounting and limited oversight by a select few. Anyone claiming they know how much is out there is full of shit.

  14. Great video i must say. Meanwhile After a failed rally above $10,800 tension is quite high as some anticipate a further dipping to below 9k while others see a correction which would take bitcoin to $16,000 region. Well, what matters most now is not even the price but the number of coins on can accumulate. If it dips, buy some more and if it corrects, I will also advice to buy some more. But most importantly your first priority should be Trading with the right strategy, the right step as well as the right mentors who have carved out success for themselves in the crypto currency space. Now Based on my personal experience I will recommend Dani Thompson, a crypto expert i met in a forum whose trades i have been copying for over two months now and have grown my meagre holdings by 19btc already. His signals and strategies are so on point and winning is always certain. My advice to the whole community is fo find someone like him and be motivated while earning consistent profit. Mr Dani can be contacted via mail ([email protected] ) for his professional assistance concerning bitcoin trading.

  15. 😂😂😂 I haven’t Finish high school and I know bitcoin is not going to be the problem I love this because he just talking about bitcoin 🤦‍♂️ bitcoin is one of the weakest crypto’s bitcoin is not gold bitcoin is not money 💰 bitcoin is the 1st Decentralize business bitcoin is a piece of a company that you can own just like apple 🍎 but better but bitcoin is the 1st Generation crypto they have the 3rd generation crypto and it ADA look out no Mining ⛏ just staking will be ready this year 2019 and you can own a piece of the Decentralize company under 6 cents now 😎 you don’t have to be a Credited investor To get in that’s why they don’t like crypto and what the hell is a Credit it investor 🤦‍♂️ the banks is the BIGGEST DUMB investors WE the None credit investors had to Bail The banks out / print more money 💰 gold is for rich old people yes we do buy Jewelry but we don’t Cherish gold or any other Elements if so why my job don’t have my retirement in gold 💭🤷‍♂️ or silver they don’t they have them in company’s and that’s what crypto is the new company Structures 😎

  16. His point that you exclude all of the cost to secure and store gold doesn’t make sense. That would equal the 4% spent to secure cryptos.

  17. Beginning with 6:55 it becomes increasingly obvious he does not understand what Bitcoin is. I recommend more study time and less public appearances for the time being.

  18. Great discussion.
    That said, I think there is a bit of romanticism and partiality in Mr Sebag's view of Gold vs Bitcoin.
    The Market Cap of gold is not based on my earrings, it is based on the bullions locked in UK's, Switzerland's and China's vaults. That is the reality. The fact that I wear 1 carat of gold on my ears is totally insignificant and unrelated to its trading price.

    As for Bitcoin, its value very much ideological, not physical or digital or financial at this point. The fact that miners are using electricity, investing money or speculating on the price has no relevance. The opportunity to be contrarian and oppose the current financial state of thing is what sustain its trading price.

    Essentially, Gold is being held down by its physical reality (you don't know gold exist until the mining company digs it out), and Bitcoin is being held back by its ideological premises (you don't buy Bitcoin unless you want a share in the alternative economy).

  19. Good video, a lot of intelligent comments on BTC and gold, but with all my sympathy to Roy, I need to point out that BTC holder doesn't have to relay on the miners to keep the network alive.
    Yes, it's needed to maintain the infrastructure and it's the most effective way to transfer BTC from one wallet to another, but it's not the only way. If tomorrow the whole internet goes down, all BTC holders will need to do to transfer the coin is to have the UTXO and private key in their possession, in most extreme scenario written down on a piece of paper but it can also be a offline PC or mobile phone. With UTXO, private key and the destination public key, one can calculate transaction input and transmit that to the receiver of the BTC (radio, Morse code, txt, smoke signals or even send a raven 😉) and now we have new UTXO owned by different private key.
    Yes it's slower, inconvenient, less secure and much more difficult to keep in sync with the network, but the point is that there is no need for the miners to run the network, and one can have the private key in physical form, meaning in a way can have physical BTC.

  20. btc will become 100x to 1000x more energy eficient. also its energy use also powers a global payment system. its a very poor point of view. but i agree that both will fight together against fiat.

  21. At 33:27 Sebag says about Bitcoin "You can't fractionalize it." This is where he loses credibility in my book. He needs to google "How many Satoshis are there in one Bitcoin?" and then he would find out that there are 100 million Satoshis in a Bitcoin. In other words, you can fractionalize a Bitcoin into one hundred million parts. I'd like to see him do that with an ounce of gold. For as pretty and useful as gold is, you cannot fractionalize it to a microscopic level, like you can with bitcoin. Roy Sebag needs to learn a lot more about bitcoin before he pretends to understand it.

  22. This is a gold bug trying his hardest to "show" he likes Bitcoin – but obviously he thinks Bitcoin is crap. Gold is the most regulated and easily prohibited asset on earth. Try to take a kilo of gold across any border and see what customs will do – they will most likely confiscate it.
    This guy speaks the same nonsense as Wall Street shills like Roubini and Schiff. Technology changes, so can Bitcoin as it is basically just software. To think that Bitcoin is going to remain static is foolhardy. There is proof of work and proof of stake, just as a mall example. How this can be incorporated into Bitcoin will be interesting in the future. Gold is worthless unless you own a central bank or are a person who likes to wear shiny trinkets. Gold is an ancient relic. Bitcoin and Blockchain are obviously the future.

  23. The cost of maintaining the network constantly changes while the application use cases in the coming days will be beyond our imagination. In terms of use cases comparing to gold will be much much greater. Bitcoin mining self-adjust on its own based on many factors and all profit driven. Miners mine because it's profitable and it's making logical and economical sense. A lot of the energy used in China are surplus power would go waste if not used anyways. Such stupid and invalid arguments here. Gold is almost useless in a digital age as currency or money because it's too damn card to carry around to transact with. It's more expensive to safeguard gold than it is for bitcoin. There will be no government bodies be able to forever enforce a gold backed currency due to the greed and corruption nature of human in control. If Bitcoin is 10 trillion and everyone is using Bitcoin then things will be denominated in satoshies who the hell needs Coinbase and what would be the meaning of their existence…

  24. Too many confusing opinions. I will address the mining centralization since it's the oldest one I guess:

    The 51% attack is misunderstood by many. It doesn't allow you to control the network or change the consensus rules etc. The only thing it enables is a double spend. An extremely expensive one to be precise. Why would any government be interested in that? The network is a social consensus. It means that Bitcoin is controlled by much more parties: programmers, exchanges, node owners, and regular users. We had a preview of that dynamics during the UASF event in 2017. This is the actual decentralization of the network – not just decentralization of the mining. That said, mining pools are misunderstood as well. They gather miners around the world. Those miners can join a different pool overnight. If a government would try to control a pool, they will switch to a pool in a different country.

    Bitcoin is very complex and not so many people grasp the whole thing. Invite Andreas Antonopoulos or Trace Mayer. They do.

  25. This Sebag fellow is aspiring to be a vulture capitalist. He wants to be the next Carl Ichan. Make billions at the expense of hard working ‘middle-class’ people. People such as this should be denounced and discredited!

  26. Roy is correct. The gold and silver will not have to be lugged around once it is tokenized on blockchains.

  27. How many time have you double your investment in gold since 2010 to present? Bitcoin only 35,000+ times

  28. The Btc asset is based on the concept of math (= nature) with which we can use constructs of nature like elements on the periodic table.

  29. Such a pleasure to listen to intelligent people have a conversation like this. Long Gold, Silver and Bitcoin.

  30. Gold is a false sense of security, and so is bitcoin, and so is fiat. People should stop trying to own things. We are all temporary renters.

  31. This guy obviously hasn't taken the time to fully understand Bitcoin. Everyone is now dumber for listening to his LEGO analogy.. It was like a gym teacher trying to explain the theory of relativity with Barbie dolls.

    For one, Bitcoin network was already 256 times faster (more secure) than the top 500 supercomputers combined in 2013. Two, Bitcoin is the 8th largest currency in the world. Mass adoption is right around the corner. Samsung including crypto wallet in their new phones is one example, Daimler creating a crypto wallet for the transportation industry is another.

    Having said that, PMs and crypto will have a close relationship in the future of money. Hating on one or the other just exposes your personal investment position. Sites like Apmex and JM Bullion already accept Bitcoin payments.. This is just a glimpse of what the future holds.

  32. gold isnt decentralized… its mined by only like 5 huge companies…. they control how they mine therefore controlling the price of gold…. it sucks

  33. Gold versus Bitcoin makes no sense. Basically the same team. Value of both of these should and will grow against Fiat. I have no gold and only Bitcoin, but I still found the Drop Gold campaign to be a bad one. I'm looking to get in before the eventual blow out of its apparent price suppression. I know its has finally broken out some but seems like it has a long way to go. #dropfiat

  34. Better than listening to Peter Schiff. Still bias in my opinion. Don't see why gold and Bitcoin can't Co exist.

  35. This guy wants to ignore all the benefits Bitcoin brings while at the same time highlighting it's weaknesses while putting a huge emphasis on gold being a physical element. Very biased opinion. His argument that there has to be continued mining for Bitcoin to work is like arguing that walking is far superior to flying in an airplane. You have to trust that hundreds of mechanics and engineers have maintained the aircraft, that the pilots will show up, that the jet will be properly fueled. You pay money up front and you just accept that all of these things will happen and it costs soooo much money and it's such a burden. With your own 2 feet, you need to accept promises from nobody. Just walk! Walking is far superior! Nevermind the fact you literally cannot walk to Australia from any other country. Let's just ignore that.

  36. Hodl is a good thing but people now should put more effort in bitcoin usage such as use them for buying items, as a medium, remittance, and other payments or else these hodling may not last. Lastly, socialize these usage from as easy as posting in social medias, writing a blog, or even posting videos. Don't just look at the chart and hope for it to rise, put more effort.

  37. Its Seems Nobody wants to simply admit that bitcoin's intrinsic value is based on its ability to access the black/gray market economy through the dark web….if that portion of the internet closes, crypto losses all value

  38. Wrong. Hashpower doesn't govern transaction speed. Difficulty adjusts if hashpower drops. Bitcoin network would still work if there were just 100 miners.

  39. Wrong again. Miners have made no promises to bitcoin buyers. No more than fiat issuers have made promises.

  40. The more I listen the more annoyed I get. So many misleading statements about bitcoin being made here. He is so obviously a gold bug.

  41. BITCOIN smart contracts are been developed like Schnorr Signatures, MimbleWimble protocol, RSk, that secure the network as well as makes it immutable, and scalable and adoption is currently taking place. There are more smart contract been developed for bitcoin to be use independent of fiat. Been inform instead of bashing Bitcoin is the best way to accept the new changes of decentralized finance.

  42. Note, his conclusion at the end of the video is that Bitcoin will act as gateway back to a gold standard, at which point it won't be needed and more. Guy is 100% a gold bug and thinks Bitcoin is ultimately worthless and will fail as a global currency/store of value.

  43. He screws up when he starts mentioning a 5% decay rate, revealing his logic is faulty. Don't most of our corporations run at a 5% decay rate, trailing 20 times earnings? (5% times 20 is 100%) I'd say even this is a poor comparison because the largest expense of most businesses the labor costs, often eating over 50% of all income (even before profits) and it is extremely rare to find any business that has a base value 40+ times greater than the annual investment required to keep it running at the same (or greater) level of productivity. Most businesses dream of very meek 1% to 5% profits annually, with hedge funds yielding some 8%, even the best investors average some 25% per year, but Bitcoin has been by far the most profitable asset class for many years now, much more than gold. Though that commercial about dropping gold is retarded, it does hold true that trading digital currency worldwide is extremely easy when compared to that of exchanging gold. As a Bitcoin miner I am perfectly happy with 95% profit year after year (5% decay) it's my rental properties often only operating at 50% profits that are a failing enterprise when compared to the profitability of my Bitcoin mining business, though I am also happy with 50% profits because I know that even my failing business outperforms that of those like Warren Buffet who are respected for meek earnings of just 25%.

  44. Miners process payments, they don't just solve puzzles, we just do that to earn extra money on the side, eventually there won't be anymore Bitcoin to mine (puzzles to solve) and we will all simply be processing payments, the tiny fee for processing those millions of micro transactions is the money we receive to mine and it is more than enough money to pay for the energy used for those transactions. Many times more in billions are used everyday to run banks, credit cards, storage vaults, transportation systems, etc. Such businesses which require a physical office, person, building, space, to exchange assets or currency are not as profitable as using the darn near completely free cloud of Bitcoin miners already running at some 10,000 nodes all over the world. You can't compare $15 for a wire to 1 cent for a Bitcoin transaction then somehow still get confused and think that paying $15 is a better deal than paying just 1 cent. The main confusion appears to be that it is difficult to inform and make others believe that there is a better way that exists to swap money that is thousands of times more efficient than those older now antiquated systems of exchange.

  45. this guy goes on forever let me sum it up for you I didn't make enough money in Bitcoin Ergo I don't like Bitcoin anymore

  46. What is the volumetric space of all the worlds gold mines? All the worlds gold vaults? All the worlds gold refineries? They don't just mine, refine, and leave it lying on the ground.They don't just pack up and leave after one year of mining. It's a huge amount of area and resources. How much energy does it cost to runs the worlds banking industry? All the computers and servers used in the banking industry that need replacing every four years, how much do those cost? I'm sure Bitcoin costs less.

  47. >he doesn't realize that the energy cost of bitcoin is bitcoin's price floor

    missing the forest for the trees lmfao

  48. As someone who would probably be considered a Bitcoin Evangelist it is always great to hear different opinions and this is one of the best.

  49. I mean. The whole mining cost too much and to many resources argument is a non issue for me. I would think the halving which they didn't talk about reduces overall cost(by cutting out the smaller miner players as the profitability of mining is reduced from what I understand)and would probably centralize mining more than it is already. Which I dont think is necessarily bad. But it could be should they decide to 51% attack the network, but mining wont be a forever thing. Once theres 21 million mined that's it. Your negative yielding bond issue goes down the drain? He needs to understand it's a digital age, and that bitcoin which is the heart and soul of blockchain technology just makes more sense given the time. Our four fathers knew a private bank that prints paper and loans it for interest would be a disaster but it happened anyway. Its does concern me that a very small percentage owns almost the bitcoin. I would assume it's like 10% owns 85% of the supply. But thats also probably a non issue as 1% owns all the money in the world already if anything bitcoin levels the playing field just a tad or just enough.. anyways the supply is centralized and so is the mining process. Can that stop it from success? Who knows. what if bitcoin wins because of its centrality and the ability to track down every single satoshi and monitor the monetary system on a global scale. Nonetheless looks like theres room for both.

  50. Bitcoin is massless to the individual, but

    E = MC^2

    And the Bitcoin entity begins to acquire a quantum of mass.

    Generate grid power with oil and gas, and you start needing supertankers to ship it.

    All money costs money, or at least effort and energy!

    Even gold must be refined, forged and stamped, to make it effective, or else it would need to be continuously assayed for every transaction. But really, you need trusted goldsmiths to issue bills of exchange or promissory notes on the deposits they hold, or the modern equivalent, Goldmoney.

  51. We are witnessing the crossing point where we transition from assigning value to physical assets like land, oil, and precious metals to a digital landscape that future generations moving forward will become more comfortable with as technology advances. As VR and blockchain technologies develop, new virtual worlds will be created for us to explore and eventually conduct commerce through. Digital assets such as virtual land, data, and digital currencies will underpin a new global economy without borders or central authorities, allowing a culture which spends more time in the online world than the physical to truly engage in an open world free market economy. I for one am fucking pumped to be able to participate in this paradigm shift.

  52. Am I missing something or is Roy one of the biggest hypocrites I have ever heard speak; owning a large stake in bitfarm and hence huge stakes in mining and in the same breath complaining about the waste of resources mining causes. Unbelievable !!

  53. Using fiat seems to me to be the best way to run an economy but it requires truth and transparency. Of course there are greed factors. But even crypto and gold require honesty, truth and transparency. Democracy requires it too. The question is which requires less or which operates best at what levels of truth which also includes truth about making war. The problem we are seeing is this lack of truth. We need to get back to truth, honor, transparency with our people including our justice systems.

  54. This is a brilliant video! I’m a die hard crypto advocate but open minded to listen to other arguments. It’s amazing people down vote just because they want so badly to “get rich” and don’t hear “to the moooon”. Great jobs guys!

  55. People also wear gold jewellery to signal that they are wealthy. Same reason they wear luxury clothing. This allows people to entice others to respect them, co-operate with them etc

  56. Criminal cartels are using bitcoin for money laundering purposes. That's an easy excuse for the government to criminalise the use of digital currency except for their own of course. Bye,bye bitcoin.

  57. There are no promises. Who is making this promise of returns? The miners? They are not "issuing" equity in a corporation or profit making scheme when they sell the mined BTC. That's like saying gold miners are issuing securities when they release gold on the market. Roy is wrong here. When I own BTC, I have no claim or rights of ownership in the mining company or anything else. It is neither an equity stake or a debt ownership. I think this is a real stretch on Roy's part. …this is my initial reaction, though. I'll give it more thought, but at first glance, Roy's argument seems way off. It sounds to me like he's wrapped himself around the axel.

  58. Just like watching two cab drivers discussing UBER, they reaffirm their narratives, it's a waste of time. Would be nice to have a discussion between 2 people with different perspectives who could challenge many of the things they say…

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