This week in Bitcoin- 3-22-2019- Vijay Boyapati, Hass McCook, Kenn Bosak


Hello everyone this is adam meister the
bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this week in bitcoin today is
March the 22nd 2019 strong hand offended by selling value your wealth in Bitcoin
uncompensated one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin be a unique beast bitcoin is the
next Bitcoin okay I had to do a lot of catchphrases there but we’ve got an
awesome high energy positive panel today this is we’ve got quite a combo here we
got DJ baby porta-potties he’s a little west coast I’m there now right
also we got Ken pose that got out on the East Coast I think that’s where he is
that’s where he’s from and then we got passable cook he’s so far away it’s
already Saturday where he is in Australia so we got we got quite a show
now before I went on air I noticed a story broke and well here’s two
different headlines talking about the same thing this is from CNBC so you know
this one’s gonna be terrible a majority of Bitcoin trading is a hoax
new study finds then it uses the word Bitcoin and hoax
very nice coin Telegraph put it a little bit differently bitwise tells us SEC
tells us what tells the SEC that ninety five percent of the volume on regulated
crypto exchanges is suspect okay so they they actually you know that they a big
coin said they said the truth yeah what a this statement that I just said are
these two things we know this already that they that the only exchanges
there’s watch trading there’s all sorts of insanity going on they’re fake
hoax whatever you want to call it Ken what do you think about these latest
headlines and had you even heard about this yet no but I mean this is something
I’ve been thinking about for a while you know we always not always but I mean
like when I first got into Bitcoin everybody was saying you audit the
Federal Reserve when Aude it well when audit these Bitcoin exchanges and when
audit coin bass to see if these are bitcoins that
are being traded or if it’s just fluff that they’re putting in the volume to
make themselves look good we don’t know you know that’s the problem with these
centralized exchanges it’s in their best interest to make themselves look good
have high volume but yeah is it real volume we don’t know that’s a trust fall
and I don’t for one trust any exchange so it’s probably more true than not
unfortunately and yeah I don’t know if I can trust the exchange I don’t know if
it’s as a hoax as much as it may just be like misinformation these exchanges they
want to boost third numbers they want to be higher than would be ranked higher
than the other one there’s you know it’s it’s the wild wild west out there and
this is something we’re very familiar with but a story with someone reads this
on CNBC okay this is how you get a weak hand or how newbies like I shouldn’t be
in this because it’s it’s all fake bitcoin is a hoax
why don’t they talk about the stock market being a hoax because companies
are buying back their stocks to pump the value the volume of than the value of
their own stocks up to then dump it back down to the people they got caught in
the hype that they created the stock market’s a hoax whoo pal then like oh
we’re on fire Vijay what do you think about all these headlines that we
already knew about basically well I I think it you know points to the
influence that coin market cap has in getting
newbies to to go to exchanges and and to find you know what which is the most
prominent exchange the exchanger is a lot of these exchanges are just trying
to game the system and and and they pump their volume so they can get a higher
ranking on coin market cap to attract new buyers and it’s mostly mostly this
is happening in Asia and so somebody you can tell the the volume is fake on some
of these exchanges because the trading fees are zero for some of them so people
go there and they trade with themselves back and forth the the problem is the
story is trying to give the impression that there isn’t really any volume for
Bitcoin trading which is false because if you exclude these exchanges
in Asia you know it does reduce volume but then you have to also factor in the
fact that a huge amount of trading volume for Bitcoin happens OTC which is
not seen on any exchanges so big blocks of Bitcoin move back and forth every day
at places like Cumberland mining and circle has its own OTC desk so Bitcoin
bitcoins volume is very significant it’s certainly less than it was in 2017 but
you know I think it’s fair to to discount the volume on some of these
Asian exchanges because there’s some of them are incredibly scammy and if the
point is just that some exchanges are scare me yes that’s true but if the
point is that Bitcoin doesn’t have any volume no that’s false
but the excellent point and you know what I like your story within the story
there the influence of coin market cap on the whole ecosystem ivy that day
everybody and their mother wants to have high numbers of some sort up there
whether it be an all coin whether it be an exchange now did you hear how coin
market cap is it has now incorporated some type of ranking in there of coin
some independent a letter grade I mean I just thought about this I talked about
the story earlier this week when market cap has
major major problems that one of the problems is not just the volume their
reports on exchanges it’s the volume it reports per coin and if you don’t
normalize this in any way then you think that the volume of some of these small
coins is comparable to Bitcoin or you know a large fraction of Bitcoin but if
you normalize it by you know the amount of Bitcoin that’s moving and how long
the bitcoins been held and you know various things like that you find that
bitcoins market cap it’s real market cap is much much higher than these old coins
so you know you really need to normalize the
exchanges for the volume on exchanges and volumes for coins in various ways
coin market cap has a lot of problems and I think it’s it is kind of
problematic that people who unused the space come and go to coin market cap and
try and figure out you know what what exchanges are reputable what coins are
reputable and they’re really they’re doing a poor job of reporting meaningful
information alright pass a lot has been said point market cap stocks are fake
look what is what are your thoughts on all these topics we’ve covered so far
I’m always very short and sharp so yeah it is a hoax and the more we can
convince newbies that trading is a hoax and a fool’s errand and get them into
the stacks adding yeah stacking sack / tithing / holding culture and school of
thought the better so the more we can call out the hooks that is all these
casino exchanges the better wow dude yeah it is it is widel stealing your
money so what if you if you if you believe in in Bitcoin you just slowly
stack sacks tithe do whatever you need to do hold and and ignore the noise Wow
very very good point very good way of stopping it up yeah people you could
take person responsible you can play in that space but there is a lot of
wildness going on there and yet like 90% of people lose and the exchanges
themselves are fakery so uh the before we move on can we said so much was
everything you would add yeah F coin market cat I mean I don’t know how
they’re not in jail since they promoted every scam that you could fit in an ad
banner in 2017 I mean from big connect a bit petite the us I tech gladiate keen
they I feel like I could name at least four
more if you gave me a minute but I mean they’re responsible for the for the
normalization of every scam that was a pyramid scheme
up until this day and time right now they still get caught promoting some
sketchy scam in their ad banner so don’t forget Quinn market cap is that number
one referral in the downline of every pyramid scheme that’s ever existed so
yes screw coin market cap net to their face in Hong Kong at token 2049 that
that one statistic you just gave there can say that again and where did you get
that statistic from I I just clicked I clicked on all the scan that banners
they had I participated in all this stuff they promote it so I’m in their
downline all right but is that I need you that’s where most of the they were
one of the most used for furlings for big connect it said no risk you know
forty percent a month guaranteed and as soon as big connect went kind of shy
they had bit petite right there in its place well another thing so that okay
they think they had shady advertisements that there’s no doubt about that and
that is not good but the worst part of it if they list it then have the list
bit connect as a real coin that it was listed is it still listed on there it is
I believe yes this is I BJ I’m glad you brought brought up this aspect of the
story that I didn’t think about it Cory market sabe
VG what do you think’s the solution here yeah good question how are people going
to get unadapted the coin market cap or what do you see the evolution away from
that or do you see that happy yeah I mean I think it’s what you guys can and
you pointed out is pretty important as well there’s a conflict of interest
where you know they’re getting advertising dollars from some of these
really scammy coins pump and dump schemes and that gives
them an incentive to play nicely and list those coins which is really a
problem that people have come up with alternative measures for how to measure
volume and market cap and things like that I think Nick Carter has done some
great work on this I’m not sure if that’s been incorporated
into any other site that’s competing with coin market cap but really you know
the problem with a lot of these things is they’re such a strong network
effective products whether it’s coin market cap or Facebook or or mount GOx
the problem is you can have a dominant player that is just doing a terrible job
or is you know even malfeasant or criminal and because that there is a
strong network effect it’s hard to unseat them and so you know bringing up
Mount cocks going back to 2013 and 14 it was run very very poorly but it was very
hard for the competitors to unseat them because it was just the dominant place
to go and the same thing is kind of a true of coin market cap because it gets
the biggest audience everyone wants to be on there everyone wants to reach out
to them when they want to have that coin listed there everyone wants to advertise
there and it really it gives them a pretty deep moat I just you know I don’t
know how to solve that problem except to say just beware of them if you’re
someone who’s coming to this space and you new to space be very wary of what
you see there it’s not don’t definitely take everything you see there with a
very large grain of salt yeah it’s probably a shot of penicillin you might
get a malware virus playing around on coin market cap be careful what you
click ladies and gentlemen first of all I would have say thank you to castle
Krypto who’s loving this show he sent $4.20 I guess in honor Ken and that is
my bro bro absolutely annihilate that light button he says well I think a lot
of people would do it okay so let’s move on to a topic that everybody’s talking
about but I want to hear these three guys opinions on this topic we’ll start
with Hass down under are they making a big deal about Jack Dorsey saying all
this great stuff about his new project that that’s gonna
of Bitcoin in some way well I live in a bubble and they’re talking about it in
my bubble I don’t know what’s happening outside of the bubble but you know we’re
all we’re all real stoked on on Jack me being an aspiring cult leader have a big
big respect to the infrastructure he’s set up that allows people to stack SAS
in an extremely easy way if more more and more billionaires could take the
lead and just you know reinvest you know a couple of hundred thousand bucks a
year into some into some depths the world would be a better place so I’m
totally on board with what Jack’s doing and I don’t see him as a benevolent
actor I see him as a guy with skin in the game looking after looking after
himself and also you’re not achieving our shared end goal yeah uh you know III
think yeah that’s a great point this is no charity for him this is this is for
the benefit of him which is great is it people should be doing this for their
own benefit and and it helping in the long run helps everyone Vijay what do
you think about the situation and will we soon be hearing fine about how Jack
Dorsey is the secret owner of Bitcoin or something well I you know I think it’s
great that he is supporting Bitcoin and in general I really think people who are
passionate about Bitcoin should patronize and support companies that
themselves supported a Bitcoin and also ostracized those that are not and so
example ideas coinbase which i think helped orchestrate one of
the most significant attacks on Bitcoin in its history so I I I really
appreciate that he’s supporting Bitcoin by supporting developers who are gonna
work on Bitcoin but I will also say I am concerned about Twitter as a platform
for global communication and his association with that cause he’s the CEO
of Twitter and the censorship that happens on Twitter I don’t give a small
example there have been a lot of accounts that have been suspended often
you know almost immediately for saying things like
into code and the problem I have with that is that it really seems to be
applied unevenly across the political spectrum which is really problematic
that the main conduits for information on the Internet all seem to be
politically aligned which tends to stifle diversity of thought and so I am
very happy and supportive that Jack is you know
patronizing providing patronage for Bitcoin developers and I think it’s
great to have someone so prominent supporting Bitcoin but his association
with Twitter concerns me and I think we should all you know being for
decentralized a decentralized open system be concerned about a very
centralized platform that has so much power and influence and really seems to
be biased in the way they they handle conversation online yeah I mean people
have brought that up online I brought that up in this conversation online that
you know it it is great to have this big name but look what he does with his own
company or is it really him is it a group of people to make the decisions
over there that the big questions about that can your thoughts
all right so they’ve touched on pretty much everything in-house right like you
know Jack Twitter everything in-house but what I’m actually more excited about
is the ripple effect from this Jack and Twitter are setting the standard
starting a new trend making companies you know feel pressured into allocating
some developer power to this technology and how do they incorporate it to keep
up with these companies like Twitter and Jack that are doing this so I could care
less what Jack’s doing it couldn’t care less what Twitter’s doing what I’m
excited for are the people that are being inspired to put more energy behind
this and they’re gonna be the next Jeff Bezos garage making steam it type you
know decentralized platform competitor that incorporates basic attention token
for revenue blah blah blah blah blah so
things like Twitter Jack their legacy they’re comfortable they don’t know how
to evolve the Twitter’s already built the way it is they would have to break
it down and start from the ground up well other people that are gonna look at
this and say hey JAXA and Mark Zuckerberg and all these companies and
these thought leaders they’re really looking into this now you’re gonna have
the little guys be inspired to put a much more manpower into it and I’m
excited to see what comes out of the little weaves that are growing around
you know this mammoth of you know social networks it’s not just social media
that’s looking at Jack you know he got square he has the cash app he’s putting
pressure on banks he’s putting pressure on Western Union PayPal you know there’s
a lot of different industries that are kind of being disrupted by Jack and
being incentivized to you know step it up and try to keep up with the times
so I’m excited for the ripples of all this then the this straight dead-on
effect you know that is some as a positive vibe even though you use the
word ripple in there I feel like I got a go like I got a go like a crip in New
York and just replace like the R and ripple with like I see like crippled
like every time I say just so I don’t have to choke on yeah but no but good
good points though and hopefully others you know I like your attitude I don’t
try to put the dude on a pedestal I definitely getting the problems that
definitely and that’s not what Bitcoin one person cannot make or break Bitcoin
no deities I don’t know deities people people forget that sometimes now here’s
something that will you know fake Satoshi says and they panic or or
something the king of the trolls that happen with all the fuck with all the
love you know and power people put in the Roger and what happened when he
decided to take that and do as he wished with it he was an appointed deity and
you know maliciously used that so we have to be careful of ever like you know
oh we put our love into you know coinbase because it’s the best on-ramp
and now there are monopolies we put our love in the coin market cap because
they’re the most convenient now they’re a monopoly we got to be real careful
where we you start to put our energy individually
because individually it’s nothing but as a group we create these monopolies that
just take advantage of everybody Wow ken is on his a game today baby found
that like button do you guys had before we’re at you guys have anything else to
say that before we wrap up this time yeah I’ve in my mind I’ve been able to
disconnect Jack from Twitter just reading reading him between the lines of
his of his interviews and his podcasts especially a podcast was which the fan
Lovera reading between the lines I can almost
see that Jack Dorsey sees Twitter on its deathbed sort of run by the the mob an
animal that’s got a bit too big on him I think he got into Twitter for similar
reasons why he loves Bitcoin open platform all that kind of stuff but I
think Twitter’s that Twitter’s gotten a way for gotten gotten away from him and
I think for him to realize his personal dreams he’ll have to do that through
Bitcoin and no one man can do anything with Bitcoin and I think he’s learned
that and he’s learned a lesson early and I think it’s it’s his leadership and
signaling to the market that it’s at this point in in bitcoins life it is up
to the rich to bootstrap it so that the poor can be freed of the Fiat chains so
that’s so that’s where I’m I’m seeing jack on the on the topic of Twitter and
Twitter censorship 100 percent behind Vijay excellent all right Vijay give any
conclusionary thoughts on that before I’ve got another question for you on
another topic but yeah I I will say that I’m very happy that Jack seems to want
to contribute to consensus protocol and work on it rather than co-opt it they’ve
been other companies that really tried very hard to carve the protocol to make
Bitcoin suit their business because they wanted they wanted lower fees and the
only way they could do that is to increase the block size and so the way
they worked on was try and change Bitcoin to suit
themselves and I I think it seems to me that jack is not doing that which is
very encouraging and I’m really happy about that very good let’s we’ll see how
this develops I’m sure we’ll hear his name a million more times throughout the
year I’ve got that I’ve got that feeling he’s one of the flavours of the year and
yeah I hope I hope it turns out great now speaking about flavours of the year
there there’s one dot topic that comes up every year it just won’t go away
it’s Mount GOx and it’s coming up again people are talking about it it’s jump to
me it’s jump the shark for God’s sakes I seriously I I they’re gonna sell I mean
Bitcoin will be distributed some of the forks will be distributed in there sold
and it’s over it’s gone people getting their money but it’s come up in the news
again um do you guys have anything any thoughts on this will it ever go away
will we ever I mean I I know my panel here did they have strong hands so it
doesn’t it doesn’t affect them but some people still like when the hearing it
weakens their hands it makes them worry about Bitcoin I would like to disagree
with that I feel like for people that have heard the story the horror story of
Mount GOx and what has happened to people to see some sort of recreation
that’s even the right way to announce that but like to see it finally come to
a solution for the people that were screwed it’s I think it helps settle
some of the dust in the air about like Oh Bitcoin exchanges or scams like I I
don’t personally think that it was the best idea for Brock Pierce to go and
revive something like Mount Cox and you know promote it so heavily again but I
do see that if people were to look and do their due diligence and look into the
history a bit come before they get in and they see what happened with Mount
Cox what happened with everything up until the time people started to get
some of their money back it’s it’s more comforting than it is disheartening
I think it’s disheartening for us the vets that had to
you know live through it and be a part of it but for the people that are just
getting in that have no emotional attachment to that history it’s gonna be
like the end of a story to them instead of an open-ended horror film the the bad
guy is caught you know the the bad guy dies the story ends here like you said
it’s over I just don’t know if anybody that has been in Bitcoin since 2017 will
ever ever open and mount God’s account ever again
I don’t know but here’s the thing though people are saying okay they’re
distributing the Bitcoin now all the bitcoins gonna get dumped you know and
so that that’s the scary the critical scary aspect of it I mean I personally
think that the people who’ve been waiting for the Bitcoin so long I don’t
think they’re I don’t think they’ll be a massive dump and if there is okay there
is then we move on from that it’s I don’t know has your thoughts look I can
I can give you a personal anecdote from my from my weaker handed days so I was
on I was on BitFenix in the in the what was a 2016 yeah right
I can’t even remember how much Bitcoin was worth back then maybe about 400
bucks or something yeah so uh took a haircut BitFenix said you know oh we’re
so sorry blah blah blah blah blah you know we
promised the pay you guys all back this this here’s some you know BitFenix token
or whatever it in and I said if that these guys want me to trust them to pay
me back so I just took the haircut and that was the end of ever being on an
exchange ever again no more trading just tithing but a lot of people that just
stuck around kept trading and you know well you know it BitFenix ended up
paying everyone back so maybe I could have had a stronger BitFenix hand but
yeah it’ll be up to individual choice and psychology with whether or not they
decide to stay on the exchange whether to just move their coins off line
whether to dump their coins whether by more I can’t say I’ve I’ve
I have a feel of what the herd will decide to do but you know if people have
had their Bitcoin locked up for that long you know why dump now yeah I feel
like their hands are strong by default like their hands were dipped in quick
cement what are they gonna do at this point yeah some people are going to be
giving money actually and Alistair Milne pointed out in a tweet yesterday you can
watch my show yesterday I mentioned this then you know well that all this money
will be distributed maybe they’ll buy Bitcoin with it so you know there’s a
positive instead of all the people talking about the Bitcoin that’s being
distributed that might be sold VGA your any thoughts on mount GOx and the
neverending flood well the interesting question about the mount mount GOx case
for me is whether after civil rehabilitation is completed the
creditors will become heartless or will they become sellers it’s very hard to
make a prediction about this but we can speculate on the psychology involved so
like imagine you had 100 bitcoins on mount cox and then you believe you’ve
taken a complete loss and the losses like $30,000 a $30,000 loss is painful
but imagine if you’ve got those bitcoins back immediately
perhaps because you felt like you’re taking a loss you want to sell them
immediately because you know if you felt the relief of being made whole and you
just wanted to get yourself out of the situation but imagine on the other hand
you lost those 100 bitcoins or what you thought was $30,000 and you have to wait
and watch as those 100 bitcoins become worth 2 million dollars and now you get
some fraction of those bitcoins back you’ve seen Bitcoin go from 300 to
20,000 perhaps now your propensity to hurdle is much higher because you’ve
seen the value that you wouldn’t have seen if you went back to that you know
2013-14 context where the psychology back then might have been like oh my god
I got them all back this whole Bitcoin thing is too risky I just lost $30,000
so I’m gonna make myself hold right now the others the situation is Wow I I lost
a lot of money but now I’ve gotten it back and I’ve actually kind of made a
profit and I’ve seen that Bitcoin has this huge potential so I’m just gonna
sit on them so it’s not clear to me how this is going to affect the psychology
of creditors but those are two kind of different psychologies you can see I
think there will be some selling because the representative for the credit
creditors has been holding all of their funds without selling anything so you
have to imagine some of those funds are going to be liquidated I don’t see it as
a problem because the market has the ability to discount future events and
and so the price current price reflects the discounting the potential of those
bitcoins being sold you know I would hope that we get some kind of sell-off
I’ve been hoping Bitcoin drops even more so we get you know an opportunity in
this bear market to accumulate even more for those of us who have a very long
term perspective on Bitcoin that it’s going to become a global reserve
currency we’re just looking for cheap bitcoins as cheap as we can get while we
can get them there’s going to be a point where it’s going to be too expensive to
even buy one of them so if if Mount Cox provides us an opportunity to accumulate
bitcoins cheaply then I personally think that would be great I guess yes
someone’s gonna be buying all those Bitcoin if if anybody sells them I mean
you know maybe Tim Draper will swoop in and grab them like you did with Silk
Roads Tim Draper’s tie how that like I admit I sold I tie in person I met that
tie I love that tie it’s a good time it’s a great marketing tool people cause
it works every time no it’s great it’s awesome little great let the normies
complain a weird man Draper does a good job at it I love this mal Cox we
developed a psychology of mount Docs this is uh this is what it was come to
it with it but it’s true we shall see we shall see how it ends up and somebody in
the chat act she said what about the orcs and there actually is an article
about this I think in coin deaths today about how yeah there’s been like a
million Forks since 2013 and the creditor or the the the holders of the
the private keys of mount Cox are worried about dumping all the forks at
once and they might auction off the the private keys there’s some interesting
we’ll talk about that more on on my Sunday show I think but it it you know
if they wanted to you know there’s there’s they they could sell all of like
the there’s like a four called Bitcoin interest I believe being interest let’s
call it that and they have so much of it that they could just destroy the market
if it’s not already destroyed if they dumped it but again this stuff is like
worth pennies but again it could be they on their own they they have summers
Bitcoin that if they dumped some of these Forks they could really flood the
market and destroy him but hey that that’s that’s life there so the Bitcoin
ecosystem to tell you the truth would you say how sorry the least they could
do for the Bitcoin ecosystem there’s a bit of a payback for all the damage they
did just dump SB and PCH and that would be great
yeah would be the BCH they actually have a plan for that day I think they’re
actually distributing that it’s like the really low low level ones that we’ve
never heard of like be pizza or whatever eats them going all in then you know
what this again we we all live through the the fork mania of late 2017 it’s
something like that will happen again it’s it’s all cyclical there’s people
will come up with you know that we used to talk about I cos now they’re having
ayios yeah I use initial exchange op that the exchanges are just gonna
straight-up sell these tokens now I think it can you were telling me about
the non fungible Toki well we’ll talk about this in a second non fungible
tokens that’ll be another Trent flavor of the month stop let’s move to
Lightning Network yeah Danny the any you wanted the lightning loop people were
talking about that this week so we should bring it up and
anyone if you have any other lightning news now it now’s your chance
who wants to talk about lightning loop anyone I don’t know about lightning loop
but I know that I got my first lightning wallet up and running and I sent one
Satoshi and it it just worked and it was awesome it was really easy and wasn’t
that complicated and yeah I don’t know I was just like a fun experience to play
around with so I implore people to just play around with it couple satoshis just
experiment and get your hands dirty with the Lightning Network and start to play
with some of these wallets and send the Satoshi around the world and see how you
know cool feels yeah I mean that I talked about earlier this week there’s a
slot machine for Lightning Network now now I don’t mean I don’t encourage
gambling obviously but it’s it’s so little it’s if you have a half a Satoshi
or whatever it is I mean it seems like fun I’m glad to see experimentation
going on with with the Lightning Network that that’s the bottom line of me you
know I’m not the tech I don’t study all the technicalities behind it and
everything but to see the little quirky little things being built on top of it I
think one of these days are gonna hit on something that that’ll get some
mainstream adoption or at least a mainstream awareness of it and get more
people good corn in in Vancouver they have decontrol used to be D Central
Board it from Jax Antonio like sued them for the copyright but that’s another
story for another day and why I hate Jax and that guy but they have a really cool
lightening keg so you can pay by the ounce to tap a keg and it have like a
soda vending machine it’s like a beer vending machine that’s all lightning so
it’s just like you said all the cool little things that you see SE implement
it just like it’s there it’s being done it’s just we haven’t seen the
mainstream’s adoption of it but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t there and
functioning and something that we can use today lightening keg Thank You
Canada thank you that’s that’s very Canadian
that’s definitely uh Vijay or has any lightning thoughts our house go first
yeah so I’m not a I’m not a I’m not a tech head but I got money to spend
I’ve got a casa I got it before they released their like a membership
packages and all that kind of stuff but if you’re if you’re in the States and
you’re into Bitcoin and you’ve got about 300 bucks lying around you pick up a
full node at rez or you know play around with with lightning give back to Bitcoin
that the success of Bitcoin depends on the success of lining so get into it
learn about it support it yeah it’s great
hmm that’s a pretty bold statement that success with Bitcoin depends on the
success of lightning I don’t think I can’t agree on that cuz like you go
either way but Bitcoin could go the opposite correct so I suppose I’ll
clarify the the success of layer 1 will depend on the successful well well the
system we evaluate we can’t go mainstream without a second layer so
let’s just let’s just support these second layer initiatives Vijay so I have
a theory actually it’s not my theory I just sort
of resurrected a theory that’s from you know the 19th century or even earlier
that the money evolves in stages and and that you know it begins as a collectible
and then it becomes evolves into a store value eventually becomes a medium of
exchange and then a unit of account and my view is that Bitcoin must become a
deeply liquid well established store value before it can become a medium of
exchange and so lightning makes it possible for Bitcoin to transition from
a store value to a medium of exchange because it allows for cheap movement of
a Bitcoin around the world but my view on this is and I do not want to detract
from what people are doing on lightning I think is fantastic the Lightning
Network won’t become truly important until the total amount of savings held
in Bitcoin increases fairly significantly you know 10 or 20 X from
where it is now the good thing though is that the work on lightning sort of paves
the way for that next transition that will happen even if it’s
that’s significant right now you know most Bitcoin is going to be
held because people are treating it as the as a nascent store of value
something’s becoming a store of value they’re not really using it to buy bread
or coffee or things like that but at the point where bitcoin is a deeply
established store value has the same market capitalization as something like
gold I think it will become much more common for it to be used as a medium of
exchange so I’m I’m I’m really happy that people working on the Lightning
Network now I don’t think it’s true significance will be seen right now
although certainly a lot of people are seeing the joy of tinkering with
something related to Bitcoin that they had back in 2010 11 12 you know feeling
of sending Bitcoin to someone and having them send it back and and they’re not
really costing anything that that joy has come back to development for a lot
of people and I think that’s really really cool and you see things like
Satoshi she’s place and the lightning torch which I was lucky enough to hold
for a little bit that that joy has come back and you see it on Twitter when
people are talking about the cool little projects they’re working on so that
makes me really happy but I don’t think we’re gonna see the true significance of
the Lightning Network until at least the end of the next Bitcoin cycle when when
Bitcoin gets to you know like a hundred thousand or something like that yes yes
please I just wondered do you think that you know the Lightning network could be
that you know catalysts to start that next run where we have investors
traditional investors looking at lightning channels as another passive
income stream for even having Bitcoin right like if you want to send a
thousand Bitcoin you need a thousand and one Bitcoin in the channel this goes up
if you have millions a Bitcoin you know hundreds of thousands of Bitcoin banks
will want to hold hundreds of thousands of Bitcoin so they could have
whitelisted kyc lightning channels for large exchanges to move these large
amounts of Bitcoin through so like the institutional money
the care about Bitcoin or using it but if
they look at it as the passive means of like owning as a product you know that
as a service and that’s what a lightning channel is it’s a product that as a
service you can charge a fee on that they would you know what is it like coin
I think they own 10% of a bank now like coin lightning they’re working with
privacy implementations it’s it’s not too far-fetched to think that banks may
become lightning channels for large institutions that move large amounts of
Bitcoin around and that might be the catalyst to start their perspective as
maybe it’s not a currency maybe it’s not competing with banks but this could
potentially be a use case for a second you know alternative passive means of an
investment yeah I think that’s a great talk and I think that is eventually
gonna happen I don’t think it’ll happen now and it I didn’t really believe that
it’ll be a catalyst just because the opportunity of spending Bitcoin the
opportunity cost of spending Bitcoin right now is so high if you spend
Bitcoin and you you know actually use it as a medium of exchange you spend it and
you lose it the cost could be massive I sort of go back to that story about the
guy who spent 10,000 bitcoins on a pizza I’ve been living all in on Bitcoin for
the past two years every dollar I spent started as a Satoshi for the past 24
months so I’m that guy times 10 I feel his opinion right but yeah I imagine
that when you spend you also try to replenish so you know you know you’re
not technically using it as a medium of exchange you’re sort of using it as a
payment right rail which it’s my currency of choice I store my value and
I use it as a currency like if I get paid in Bitcoin I’ll find somebody that
wants to buy my Bitcoin at five to ten percent on top of market value for the
OTC convenience yeah if I want to buy Bitcoin back I don’t care if it’s clean
or dirty if it hits Silk Road or a gambling website I’ll buy some dirty
Bitcoin for 10% under market value and clean it on in this change like change
Li so I mean there’s a billion ways that I could use this money as money to make
more money because I use it simply as my money well I think it’s awesome that
you’re living the Bitcoin lifestyle I got all your pets to prove it I I
didn’t think that honestly I think you’re on the Vanguard can and I I think
that the most people involved in bitcoins do most bitcoins buy total you
know volume of being held so remote by by market capitalization most bitcoins
are sitting still and people are holding them because they see that there’s this
long-term potential you know I I may want to spend my bitcoins but I don’t
want to spend them until it has really widespread adoption and most of the you
don’t spend it and you don’t use it how the hell is it gonna get widespread
adoption just sitting in the corner collecting dust bro I love Adam Meister
don’t get me wrong but strong hands is the worst thing for Bitcoin ever you
have to use it you have to spend it you have to get it out there tip your
waitress tip your stripper at the strip club give it to your tender but you have
to do something with it for it to be adopted who adopts the kid in the corner
sitting there playing with the dirt house King go first I mean I have some
points too so so I I don’t think spending actually helps increase
adoption because firstly what happens is it means that those bitcoins are sold on
an exchange most people who accept Bitcoin in payment actually you’re
trying to get dollars and so what they do will do is they’ll take the bitcoins
and immediately so if you’re a bakery for instance all of your costs are
denominated in dollars so you have to pay your employees and dollars you have
to buy a flower in dollars someone gives you Bitcoin you don’t have the ability
to handle them up for the price volatility so what you want is to
increase the number of people who want to hold Bitcoin and really to me that
involves like a psychological shift it requires someone to see the long-term
value of Bitcoin if you if you give Bitcoin to someone who doesn’t have it
the majority of cases those and I’ve done this a lot over time and sort of
learned my lesson most of those people will sell it sell it off immediately
because they’re like what is this I don’t know why it’s valuable I’m just
gonna get rid of it it’s like imagine someone gave you some weed
currency from overseas and it was worth five dollars and you’re like cool you
just gave me five dollars and you sell it two dollars and then use those
dollars what we need is for people to understand why bitcoin is important and
I think each of us individually need to understand why it’s a better money and I
personally find that people appreciate and come to Bitcoin and become much
stronger advocates and stronger hands as Adam puts it when they’ve come to it on
their own they risk their own capital they’ve invested their own money and a
privileged perspective there’s people that don’t have the privilege to use it
as an investment vehicle it’s their only option sometimes plan B is plan a and
look at Venezuela today France tomorrow yeah and you know I appreciate the the
case event as well and things like that and if you look at history people who
are escaping Europe i they didn’t have a way of taking savings over to America if
they were able to escape the Nazis but in those cases I think the thing that’s
most important isn’t necessarily the ability to transact its ability to keep
some of your values so you have savings for example imagine someone in Europe
put a Jewish person in Europe and they have some savings they get to America
and they have nothing what would be great as if they could take those
savings and then be able to re-establish a life and I think that’s true of people
in Venezuela as well you may need to spend some of those bitcoins to survive
to it to escape but but to me the primary value is to be able to keep
savings and and and and to re-establish a life when you escape gasps you were
gonna say something yeah so my problem is it’s hard to get a full message out
in short sharp sound bites so I’m gonna take a minute and here’s what I meant by
layer two is absolutely essential to layer one because I see everything as
part of the big loop and my loop is a religious one and it starts with the
title so the Tyler is somebody that that whose
heart and mind has been won by Bitcoin and they understand both the economic
and social benefits of it and that’s it they’re convinced in their heart of
hearts that are moved to a Bitcoin standard is really what’s going to push
civilization forward to that to the next stage so if you ask me you know how much
is a Bitcoin worth today if you look at an exchange it’s worth four thousand
bucks to me it’s not worth four thousand bucks to me it’s worth a million bucks
but how does it how does it become worth a million bucks so you’ve got your
tithers investing dca religiously or you know or equivalent and this holds the
the base floor of of your commodity there’s more hearts and minds of one you
have more of these holders of last resort price goes up developers get
excited more developers come in they build things like Lightning Network bit
Bitcoin becomes more useful Bitcoin has become excited about it Bitcoin price
goes up more hearts and minds are one more tithing more developers are excited
enter loop loop loop and you get innovations on both side medium of
exchange or a value all of these kinds of things so I I don’t actually
while I while I agree in theory that it must absolutely be store of value first
before medium of exchange it’s a it’s a it’s a loopy and parallel path to get
there because if it’s if it’s not if it’s only use like not saying that
censorship resistance and all that kind of stuff and hard cap isn’t the best use
in absolute universe but if we can only do ten transactions per second it’s not
useful so that’s why things like lightning are so essential like just you
know when we’re at 20,000 dollars a Bitcoin the network couldn’t couldn’t
handle people buying on exchange and withdrawing to their own wallets alright
so this is why stuff like like a next Bull Run cannot happen in my
without a functioning flourishing lining Network now I want to bring up we’re
talking about spending Bitcoin and traditional way people treat to
traditional money and something that has come up this week and past weeks are
these savings accounts that are coming out that you give someone your Bitcoin
and they’re gonna pay you 6% I forgot that what’s it been for like that LCS
networks the one I’ve been looking into and yeah there’s all sorts and I wanted
I wanted time we’ve actually were talking about savings before I mean
we’re talking about savings right now so what are you guys what are guys thoughts
on these third parties up paying people 6% Vijay do you know about this you
think you talking about block by block by sorry yeah yeah I mean I think it’s
just part of the financialization a Bitcoin that is III kind of think it’s
inevitable and I personally don’t have a huge problem with it because I think
that to me the the main value of Bitcoin is it replaces the monetary base with a
form of money that can’t be controlled and can’t be inflated and that’s an
incredibly powerful thing I so so I don’t I don’t mind that these companies
are financial izing on top of Bitcoin some people believe that it’s it’s a
really bad thing we should figure out ways that banks can’t be built on top of
Bitcoin I don’t I don’t think that’s true
so really what they’re doing is they’re giving people the they’re giving people
the interest that would come from allowing people to do things like short
Bitcoin so they will the you know you you give them Bitcoin you lend your
Bitcoin to them they give you six percent and then they’re going to give
that Bitcoin to someone else too short and they’re gonna charge say eight or
nine percent interest for the person who’s shorting Bitcoin and then it’s
going to pocket the difference and so the way they get funds to lend out to
allow people the short is they put up an interest rate which will attract
people to learn their bitcoins so I you know I think it’s totally fine and it’s
healthy to have a market where people are allowed to short bitcoin that you’re
allowed to short gold for instance that provides a very liquid and healthy
market so I didn’t have a problem I think it’s totally fine
now before we the other panel members comment on this you got to get out of
here pretty soon so I just want to hear if you have any conclusionary remarks
anything that didn’t didn’t get brought up that you wanted to shout out to say
yeah I mean it’s great meeting these other guys seeing them in person so good
to meet you both i we were going to talk about Bitcoin
taxes just quickly and maybe I’ll just make a comment this is only relevant to
people in the u.s. but I wrote a long article on taxation for Bitcoin and I
think there’s a lot of confusion amongst people about what’s taxable and what’s
not and I go into a lot of detail in that article I’m not an accountant but
I’ve done a lot of research on this topic spoken to a lot of people who are
experts in in this space and accountants so that the brief summary is any like
kind exchange of crypto to crypto say you sell a theorem and buy a Bitcoin you
should never go the other way by the way is is is a taxable event that you will
owe taxes when you do that and if you sold on an exchange they have a record
that you’ve done that you should probably assume that that record is
eventually going to go to the IRS the other topic is Forks if if Bitcoin Forks
and you used all of a sudden have new coins for coins is that a taxable event
and I make an argument for why I don’t think that is and then I cover air drops
which is you know coins that you get because you already own Bitcoin so for
instance Stella in 2017 people who are in Bitcoin were able to get an airdrop
of Stella lumens and I explained that that’s the taxable event as well so this
is you know kind of boring esoteric stuff it’s not as cool as talking about
your coin becoming a coil reserve currency but tax time is coming up
in a few weeks for people who are US citizens and I think there’s a really
widespread misunderstanding of how taxes should be handled
so really seek out some expert opinions there’s some accountants on Twitter who
were very very good Laura Walters who she goes by crypto tax
girl just get a solid opinion don’t stick your head in the sand don’t assume
that these problems going away and you know the nature of the blockchain means
that these things can be tracked down years later and and as libertarian as I
am I want to make sure I don’t go to jail cuz you know I’m I’m a father of
two children and I don’t want to be in jail so I think it behooves you to
figure out how to do this properly so that some point in the future you’re not
gonna have the IRS breathing down your neck saying you didn’t pay your taxes
alright VJs links are below by the way his Twitter feed and he actually
retweeted his tax article very recently so follow all three of these guys that
are link to below DJ I will let you go as I know you gotta
go I’m gonna catch up with you off the off the livestream and I gotta pick your
brain I got two taxable potential hypothetical scenarios I want to run by
you yeah absolutely right right these DMV Jays d amiable –
he’s on he’s on Twitter so VJ thank you very much for being on today and it’s
it’s always it’s always great to uh to see you here man so take care thank you
guys it’s great seeing all of you okay go going back to what we were talking
about before is as Ken is uh Ken’s enjoying life over there
what do you can you you know about these we’re talking about interest-bearing
Bitcoin account savings accounts your thoughts they’re an important step in
current cryptocurrency becoming a world currency yes to be able to perform the
same tasks as the current currency performs today if you can’t take out a
loan with your Bitcoin as collateral when you go to the bank I like that’s
all I have is Bitcoin right now I’m all so if I go to the bank and I’m like look
I want to take a loan out you know get a house I have a couple Bitcoin you know
can you hang on like that’s not going to happen it doesn’t it won’t work so these
platforms that are starting to come out as long as they’re KY seed as long as
they’re going through the anti-money laundering things and I would expect
that they would be open-source about the currencies that they have where they’re
going like these addresses that ledger should all be public if you’re you know
if I’m giving you Bitcoin and you’re lending my Bitcoin out I feel like that
shouldn’t be hard to find or track the money I want to know where my Bitcoin
went and who’s borrowing it what you’re getting and why I’m getting what I’m
getting for it and all those questions should be answerable without having to
go through any red tape so I just think that it’s an important role for Bitcoin
to act as every means possible that you know fiat currency plays today in our
economy if you can’t get a loan out for holding Bitcoin that’s one less reason
to hold Bitcoin so if we can incentivize people to hold Bitcoin in a custodial
manner because some people don’t want to treasure your never some people have ten
thousand a hundred thousand a million dollars there they’re never gonna feel
comfortable holding that on their own they’re gonna want a scapegoat they’re
gonna want somebody who’s insured that they can yell at when shit hits the fan
because it will as a custodial service always does but that’s what people will
always want so it’s an important stepping stone if we don’t have it how
do we get these institutional investors on if they’re never gonna want to take
the risk of holding their own keys I mean look what happened with quadriga in
Canada you know that’s it’s a lot of money that went missing and they learn
they’re learning their lesson through the custodial services but they’re gonna
have to learn their lesson so we need those places to teach them that lesson
has your thoughts and don’t lend you don’t lend you Bitcoin for Sochi for me
six percent you’d have to pay me 60 percent interests to loan out my Bitcoin
for the for the risk you’re taking you know counterparty risk
the custom Victor custodian you know risk all that kind of stuff
I think you’re absolutely bonkers given given away a Bitcoin first because 6% a
year even if you’re but anything short great when the one Bitcoin what was that
sorry well if these if these if they have an insurance where they’re not
insuring the Fiat value but they’re insuring the amount of Bitcoin right
like if you can insure my one Bitcoin if anything goes wrong I don’t care if it
goes to a dollar or it goes to ten thousand dollars I want my one Bitcoin
back then is that then I’d have to pay a lot more than six percent because an
insurance company is gonna charge a lot of money to insure that the underlying
so like let’s say Bitcoin goes to a million bucks you know good luck getting
getting insurance money out of an inch booming that we’re pairing Bitcoin the
Fiat dollars and fiat dollars hasn’t gone the way of the tool up nobody
compared gold you know tulips pegging and I don’t think anybody will in the
future look at Bitcoin to a fiat value you know one Bitcoin to one Bitcoin
that’s why I’m saying insure my one Bitcoin this is where we’re getting into
a trust issue here too I mean do you trust enjoy this is this is third-party
stuff against some of us don’t have the taste for the third-party young people
trust themselves though and I don’t want to scare them away by telling them if
you know if you don’t feel like you’re smart enough to handle your own private
keys then don’t get in the Bitcoin cuz you’re gonna lose your money the
custodial services will always play a role it’s unfortunate I’m not happy
about it but the majority of the people that use money still today don’t even
know how the dollar works let alone be able to be their own bank yeah so yeah
you’re right most people can’t a lot of people can’t be their own bank so there
will be Bitcoin banks there will be Bitcoin banks it’s just you know there’s
been a lot of talk about it and I just I bring it up because it’s in the news and
the next step three-masted option something it’s it’s it’s something I
will say that I don’t know if it’s the next step but it’s a it will help with
mass adoption but again don’t you fitting in is overrated as I say you
don’t you don’t have to be part of the masses I still tell people get on that
treasurer and learn and be your own back that is
the real reason behind Bitcoin but there I mean make sure this is your friend
this is a free world so people are gonna have big point banks and all that
interest okay with the advent of the of the Casa Casas of the world being on
banks probably going to be pretty straightforward in about two or three
years time but as Ken pointed out there are gonna be some people who value their
wealth in dollars who in two or three years time will like go bonkers saying I
can’t hold a million dollars on my computer I just I can’t do I can’t do it
I got I got to give some of it to a bank and that’s whatever but still again
what’s gonna eventually happen is one of these Bitcoin banks cuz there’s all
different levels of people saying they’re going to give you interests
there’ll be some major ripoffs too so there is there is definitely risk
okay let’s we’re at the end here but I did want to bring up do you guys have
any thoughts because I said I was gonna talk about this the the etherion people
are yelling at each other there might be a fork do you have any thoughts on the
etherium drama and on its no thoughts on the theory I’m at the moment I’m too
busy worrying about Bitcoin right now it’s I kind of you know everybody knows
I got all the different shit going tattoos but I actually read diversified
almost a hundred percent back in the Bitcoin right now there is absolutely no
alt coin that you can hold today that will get you more Satoshi’s next year
not happening more satoshis will get you more you’re all going next year that’s a
fact value your wealth and bitcoin he is
valuing his wealth and bitcoin I liked it I like that and again if you are
messing around with the altcoins yeah pay attention to see you know you
think it’s going up with is going up in dollars but the the bitcoin is doing
better always always to always take a look at that people or just hold your
Bitcoin and be boring that’s so-called boring I don’t alright
let’s let’s say we covered everything has what are your your thoughts anything
that you wanted to bring up any conclusion nary remarks anything
anything the floor is yours thank you oh I tell and anything especially a Bitcoin
centric in Australia and the and stuff shreds so we’re going out
there to vote in my state of New South Wales and we do have a have a probe
Bitcoin miner party running their flux I’ve been that re retweeting them so so
check them out and hopefully maybe they can that they can jag something in our
state Senate we’ll see how it goes that generally speaking I’ve given up on on
all forms of politics Bitcoin is the only way and my concluded my
conclusionary remarks are by as often as you can
consistently same amount save hard value wealth in Bitcoin and and enjoy enjoy
the roller coaster Bitcoin is my thing also I I try to avoid politics because
especially in North America it is it’s like a soap opera and it just wastes
people time and you’re not efficient but I do want to point out that if the
hoarding was so important then yeah it would be on a weekend they do it they do
it right down there we in the United States we have it on Tuesdays which is
just ridiculous if you wanted everybody to vote then you you would have it on a
Saturday but I mean that’s all that’s a whole another issue so good for
Australia and Australia also has like ranking boat they do things a little
different down there but again don’t get carried away in that drama people it’s
it’s just to distract you and get you close you know stuck in that that
mainstream machine get into into the Bitcoin overlay as I say you don’t have
to worry about politics at all okay you can get the last word baby oh hi hi adam
meister audience how goes it my name is Ken Bozak thanks for tuning into the
podcast you should smash that thumbs up button alright well I guess the recap on
what I’m doing I am 180 everything I’m doing right now in crypto and I am 100
percent labor laser focusing on blockchain videogames and the potential
they have to mainstream this as a technology forget the currency don’t
invest in an engine coin don’t invest in Tron just keep an eye on the technology
play with it use it that’s looking at it like Android or Apple operating systems
I’m looking at these technologies as technologies not investments not
currency but I think the potential for mainstream
adoption is with the youth and it’s starting with these blockchain games
where they’re not looking at the grating green candles of this currency they’re
just worried about the actual use case of the technology and they’re like wait
this is blockchain wait this skin that I can send around the world is basically
money like it’s that little snowball I’m keeping an eye on so if you guys are
interested I play steam monsters and I play my theorem every Friday and it’s
basically blockchain trading card games like Pokemon on the blockchain and I win
money like every Friday playing this game wow man that that is a great and I
hadn’t heard about that stuff do that you added a great perspective and yeah
it’s not all about the red and the green candles and the red it go it goes way
beyond all right dudes very good a very good conclusion to the show I thanked
all three of my guests from all over the world remember we do this show every
Friday and next Friday I return to the East Coast for the first time since the
first week in December I will be back in Baltimore where I am originally from I
will miss Los Angeles but it’s time to go back and take care of some business
over there and I’ll be there for a while but we the show will be on at a
reasonable time and again there’s a new show here every every day that we gotta
do a new show here they’re not guest on all the time it’s just the regular one
Bitcoin show Saturday is the beyond Bitcoin show so check out all the links
below see my old show follow all these dudes on Twitter and on that like button
bang that bow button i’m adam meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister
subscribe to his channel shabbat shalom i will see you guys
tomorrow night and thanks a lot guys bye-bye market caps the scam

9 thoughts on “This week in Bitcoin- 3-22-2019- Vijay Boyapati, Hass McCook, Kenn Bosak

  1. Good show and guests as usual. Re ‘warehousing’ or banking of Bitcoin I know some women can feel worried about holding crypto because of fear of intimidation. Wyoming state model may come in useful here.

    Reminder. Bitcoin ‘Halving hype’ getting closer……..

  2. I had no hope for the advancement of humanity before I discovered bitcoin. Since I have discovered bitcoin, I not only have regained hope for humanity but I believe humanity now has the potential to be truly free and can actualize its potential for the first time in history. The entire human race can truly be free if it chooses the correct path. Decentralized media and decentralized modern currency will be remembered as one of the most pivotal moments in human history. Bitcoin is more evidence that humanity is divinely guided by Providence.
    #createmorepies

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