Betfair trading – Could you make £100,000 a year?


so you’re betting you’re trading you’re
doing all of those things how much money would you like to make you hundred
thousand a million ten million what should be your actual target well I’ve
actually got a very simple answer for you and it’s very sensible but it also
clearly defines exactly what your objective is and what targets you should
set when you’re trading if you’re interested in learning to trade on
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notification of new videos as they’re released so one of the things that you
need to be careful about when you’re trading is setting targets because it’s
very easy to sort of slip into this mode where you sort of see what a couple
hundred a day will do and in fact you know this is one of the things that I
look for when people approach me and need advice because you know if somebody
comes to me and say bright Peter I need to make two hundred fifty quid a day and
just just that and I will be happy how do I do that because you’re sort of
looking at it the wrong way round because trading itself isn’t something
that lends itself particularly well to that particular method of operation
because you know yes you can set to target and you know you’re here most
people saying all set to target and then and then you’ll have a chance of
reaching it but trading sort of works the other way around so if you look at
my long term P&L and what it tends to do is it tends to follow the sports cycle
so if you look at it over the course of the year January February quite quiet
and then it begins to rise in March and then it Peaks in the summer and then as
we come out of the summer then it sort of drops but it basically follows the
cycle of the sports that I’m trading now of course the cycle includes or doesn’t
include one sport or another over the course of a year so you know your cycle
will be slightly different to mine depending upon what you choose to trade
and when you choose to trade it so my mantra is always to make hay while the
Sun shines and the summer there’s so much going on that it’s perfectly
possible to make good sums of money but I’m not
expecting to do that in the winter because there are many fewer events
going around so if you have a target that is the same in the summer as it is
in the winter that’s a bit of a nonsense really because you’re very likely to do
much less at certain times of the year and much more at other times with you so
yeah it makes no sense to be able to have a standard target and then just
liberally disperse that across the year it makes no sense at all
and you know this even works for me if we go down to a weekly basis so most of
the money that I make tends to occur towards the weekend because that’s when
most of the sporting activity is on it’s not always like that because you do get
a little bumps and peaks at other times depending upon what you’re going to do
but generally it is skewed towards the end of the week so even if I have a bad
time at the start of the week it doesn’t really matter because by the time the
weekend comes I’ve got plenty of opportunity to make it up but I don’t
look at it like that I don’t look at it as though I’m making up a certain amount
of money well that’s just part of the cycle so it’s you know useful that the
week finishes on a Saturday for me because all of the week I’m using the
word week law here but all of the lower-quality that’s a better word to
use stuff where there’s less opportunity less money in the market occurs of
beginning the week and then it Peaks at the weekend typically on a Saturday
sometimes on a Sunday as well so yeah ultimately the amount of profit that you
make is dictated by the market and the underlying events within it so
ultimately that is how you need to actually objectively look at what
potential profit you have and I’ve got a really simple way of doing that so you
know if you look at my activity on the markets what’s actually happening and
one of these sort of tricks for one to put a word that I’m pulling is I’m
actually trading many more markets now than I ever have done in the past so
when I first started on Betfair I would basically go on the screen place a
position and then close the position out and stuff like that that was pretty slow
and laborious and meant that I couldn’t do that many markets and then betangel
was born and it was possible to do a lot more with much quicker within the market
so I was able to put more trades through more markets
more frequently across a wider range of sports and as time has gone on you’ve
obviously seen Bettinger progress and now we’ve got the opportunity to be able
to automate loads of stuff as well so it’s great to be able to do that because
it means that I can simple taneous Li participate in a range of markets while
I’m actually trading another one so it’s perfectly possible to do all sorts of
weird wonderful and crazy things many times over in a whole range of markets
so necessarily the scope of my opportunity is much much bigger than it
ever was so that’s one of the reasons that I’ve performed so well overall is
because I’ve got something going on pretty much 24/7 all of the time and
even if I’m actively trading in front of my screen here I’ve got other versions
of potential doing other stuff in other markets or even on the same market but
with a different strategy so that’s one of the tricks to being able to hit that
number is to be able to do you know more things within it but necessarily that
reduces your risk as well because if you think about it you know your target
isn’t to do one amazing 200 pound trade you could actually do five smaller
trades to get up to a decent number if you so wish and that’s the sort of the
crux of where we’re getting to here because if you set a target an arbitrary
target of say you know a hundred pounds in any one particular day or something
like that you’re going to be limited to achieving that target by however many
markets are involved in hitting that particular number so really what you
need to do is you need to stretch out your time scale and make it much bigger
and longer over wider timescales so if you say to yourself that you just want
to be profitable over the course of the week if you only trade five markets
there’s a lot of pressure on for you to get those five right however you know
it’s perfectly possible you could train hundreds in a week so therefore your
target becomes a little bit more achievable because your lower your
stakes down which involves a little less pressure on you it’s easier to actively
trade with smaller amounts anyway and then when you’re actually active and in
the market what you can actually do is you can sort of say okay my target for
the week is I’m just going to use an arbitrary money I don’t suggest you set
this target but I tie it for the week is a thousand
and I’m going to trade this many markets so if you trade five markets and your
target is 1000 pound you’re going to pull out a 200 pound trade without any
losses to be able to hit that target that’s a bit of an ask if I’m honest now
if you say my target to that is a thousand pound and I’m gonna do it in a
thousand markets all of a sudden you collapse your objective not down to one
mega trade but basically you’re sort of saying you know on average I’m going to
make a pound out of these markets so I could be up to two on one particular
market down one on another up five and another down four up six down three and
you basically aim for a target that’s sort of much more reasonable and
manageable and it’s perfectly possible to do that I have a automation strategy
that I use I’m trying to remember how much it’s made now and it’s funny
because I can’t off the top of my head I think it’s probably 60 or 70 grams
something like that I’ll check when I bring up the spreadsheet and I’ll
annotate the totals on there but if you look at the way that it was achieved and
the equity curve and equity curve is basically looking at the cumulative P&L
of a particular strategy what you’ll see is it’s just a gradual climb over a very
very long period of time the individual amounts that I win and lose on there are
relatively small so the sort of trick that I’m pulling here is I’m just doing
a lot of them and on average it’s ending up slightly so you know it’s a lot of
money at the end of this particular total but the actual amount of money
that’s involved at any one time in the risk that I’m taking and the amount that
I’m yielding per market is actually pretty small but of course you know this
runs parallel to all of the stuff that I’m doing in the market and it just sits
there and away it goes and does its business and then I can look at it at
the end of the week go yeah it had a good week but necessarily that you know
the more markets I put into it the more it will yield and less Marcus I put in
it the less I will yield but by doing it over a very large number of markets your
actual overall objective is very very achievable so if I said to you you know
can you pull off a 200-pound track it in the next race the next trouble
much or whatever you may or you may not be able to do that but if I say to you
your objective is to make one pound a trade then obviously you think well
definitely I can I can achieve that and then all is is a case of replicating
that going forward from there so if you look at it from a broad
perspective over a year you know if you wanted to make a hundred thousand pound
a year then what you could actually do and so you could sort of say well I’m
going to trade fifty thousand markets and I’m going to make two pound on
average on those fifty thousand markets and by using the term to panel an
average what we’re saying is you know in some markets you win a fibre and on
other markets you lose three quid and it averages out of +2 so all of a sudden
you know you’re sort of thinking well could I get to pound out of a market you
know that’s a much more reasonable target than trying to and some
stupendous amount out of the market probably at much much higher risk so
when you set a target that’s ultimately the way that you should be doing it you
sort of almost write up a business plan that sort of says okay this week I’m
gonna focus on this and what I’m gonna do is I’m going to chip away at these
markets and I’m going to do this many markets and that’s where I sort of want
to end up and it’s a much better way of looking at your risk and at your money
management and what your trading objective is then trying to just like me
Andy your way through it sort of you know throwing money at it left right and
center and then finding yourself up against a target and then slipping
backwards and you know it gets very very messy so you have a definable pattern of
behavior I know how many markets I’m likely to trade next year and the
interesting thing is the number of markets that I trade on average view is
actually accelerating at the moment because of all the work we’ve done with
automation and semi automation things like servants that increases my capacity
to trade and not only trade more markets but put more trades through those
markets and as a consequence it may account turnover and the profit and
everything you know continues to rise simply because of the large number of
markets that I’m able to participate in so yeah you know you don’t have to go
for those big you know glory-seeking massive totals on any individual event
your objective is a little bit more subtle than that typically and if you’re
sort of looking at how much money you could possibly make then you know it’s
important to actually say that when you start out you probably won’t make any
money but what you’re looking to do ultimately if you’re trying to get to
the stage where you earn a decent sum of money you’re actually looking at a much
broader objective you’re not sort of saying I need to make a certain amount
over this period of time you’re just sort of saying well I’m going to trade
this many markets and therefore this is my overall objective makes life a lot
simpler and easier to cope with and it also significantly reduces the amount of
stress that you have when you’re actively trading the other thing you can
do is not look at your P&L because if you look at P&L and you have a figure in
mind that you’re attempting to achieve on that day that week that month or
whatever then that tends to sort of force you to pursue more aggressive
strategies but it isn’t going well and it may be that the market just isn’t in
your favour at that moment of time you just have to keep on plowing on and
doing the things that you know are right and eventually it will turn around at
the end of that longer period although that may be more than a week it may take
a month for it to even out but yeah if you want to know how much you could
possibly trade how much money you could make from that trading I think that your
objective really is not to set that arbitrary figure but to look at the
number of markets your trading and set your total trading goal from there you

20 thoughts on “Betfair trading – Could you make £100,000 a year?

  1. Would be interested to know what's your "bread and butter" Peter, is it the actual trading or betangel subs/academy/vps etc?

  2. Haven’t watched one of your vids for ages, your grey bro 😂 I attended one of your courses in Hook 3 or 4 years ago, the trading journey has been harder than I thought, but I’m reading books, practicing and most importantly learning from my mistakes, hope to get to another course in 2020, take care peter !!

  3. Worry about becoming a profitable trader first then think about figures (if you must). Personally I think the only way to achieve 6 figures is to learn automation alongside manual but I stand to be corrected.

  4. Do you have to be a real die hard sports fan to do tradkng.already do MT but don't really need to be a follower of the sport but keep getting drawn to this

  5. Great video! You did mention that you had alot of automated bets going on. How does it affect you when Betfair goes down? One of my strategys is scalping with large amounts of money but I have been cought when it goes down lossing large amounts and back to square one not because of the strategy but because Betfair goes down! Is there anything we can do because they have no answers they just say oh well!

  6. Looking at your strategy, i don see any drawdown. How can you achieve that? Have you an edge bigger than 7/10 %?

    So the key is : more edges, more strategies, more markets, more quantity over quality?

  7. I have been looking for an automation stratergy like the one described in the video, namely: more wins than losses and slightly higher average win amounts than average loss amounts. Looking for small, incremental gains over time rather than big occasional windfalls with lots of losses.
    Are you willing to share the automated strategy mentioned in the video?

  8. If you profit £0.79 on average over 41,000 ish markets that's only £32,390. The chart shows over £60k profit. I'm guessing it's over 4-5 years based on 10,000 horse racing markets per year. Is this just horse racing?

  9. When I first started I was not organised as I planned to make 100£ a day then I saw that it puts pressure on yourself and take more risk. So I did what Peter was talking about and automation is the way forward. 3£ per market and an average of 400 markets a week, with a bank of 500£.

  10. Return on stake is the most reasonable target, obviously reasonable returns are different in different types of markets, but 1% return is certainly possible on most.

    That means 2000 units of £10 staked with a £2 downside risk each time will earn you a doubling of a £200 bank. If you can stake 100 units a day, twenty times a month, you can double a bank in one month.

  11. Greyhound racing is the best "market place" to be trialing new automation files as they come around every few minutes. As always, trial your automation files in practice mode for a few weeks first.

  12. Its easy to say: all you need to do is bet in 50.000 markets a year and make a profit "only" of £2 on each 🙂
    My question is this: WIll there be a pattern to spot in each of those markets to make £2 every time?
    Coz if there is no pattern there is no trade (unless you want to force market but it never ends up well)
    Its a great concept in general i even like very much however decreasing stake will not improve strike rate which is the key here, unless…again, there is a pattern. You could have had 100 races today but if there was no pattern you wouldnt have made a single penny.

  13. As you say, ignoring the P&L during trading is a simple but effective way to approach the daily grind. Plenty of time to review and the end of the day.

    The times of the year for football and horse racing combine well for all year round sports, add in the Wimbledon tennis competition, cricket world cup, football world cup..plenty to get to stuck in to.

  14. Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.
    I look for a market that has regular behaviour that lends itself to a strategy I like, then learn to trade it with tiny amounts and iron out the pitfalls and bad temptations. When I have a good few hundred trades with consistent monthly profit then start the scaling up process and see how far you can take it without undue increase in risk. There is a natural ceiling in each market, especially tiny ones. When you reach that, just be happy with your monthly swag, get the trading to second nature and move on to find another market. Learn to use BetAngel to keep more payers in play without spending too much time on them, leaving you free to concentrate on the higher payers.

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